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Talk:Una
Unnamed? Shouldn't this be listed under "Unnamed USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) personnel", seems to me it fits the criteria. --Alan del Beccio 15:57, 25 Nov 2005 (UTC) :I think the list is just a remedy if we have no other "simple" way of naming an article about a person. This one has a pretty unique and identifiable name and more backstory than most persons on that list, so I see no reason to move this. There could still be a link from that page to this, though. -- Cid Highwind 16:32, 25 Nov 2005 (UTC) Number One's Rank as X-O There has been some debate as to how an officer with the mere rank of lieutenant can become the first officer of a starship. The reason for this is that, when Gene Roddenberry first created Star Trek, the first rank structure he employed was based on the system used in the US Army, rather than naval ranks we have come to associate with Starfleet. This is just wrong. The highest grade of Lt in the Army is a First Lt, who holds the equiv. rank of a Lt JG in the Navy, which ranks below a Lt. :I'm not sure what you mean by "this is just wrong"; the fact is that's how Roddenberry had the rank structure when the series was created. Were you just making an observation, stating your dislike on the rank structure? :D --From Andoria with Love 13:41, 20 March 2006 (UTC) ::The Army was never mentioned in relation to "The Cage" ranks -- in fact, a naval lieutenant (which Number One presumably was) is equivalent to an Army captain -- meaning that assigning her an Army lieutenant rank would place here even lower in the scale than a Starfleet lieutenant rank. Doesn't this compound the problem more? ::BTW, other lieutenants, like Maxwell Burke, have been shown to be starship first officers before, albeit in times of duress or attrition. (IIRC, Lt. Cmdr. Data named Lt. Worf as his first officer in "Gambit", also do to the loss of higher ranking personnel) -- Captain M.K.B. 15:39, 20 March 2006 (UTC) ::: It is merely a thought, but considering there were a number of causalities and injured from their mission to Rigel, could Number One have been the acting First Officer? Granted, there wasn't anyone specifically mentioned except for Pike's yeoman. If the true X-O was merely injured and would have recovered at the medical facilities on Vega, then Pike and others wouldn't make as big of a deal of the X-O as they did with the yeoman's death. Plus, it may explain Number One feeling left out of the original landing party as she may been the only one left who wasn't injured or dead with the most experience.Scott E. Hileman ::::That seems to be a possibility and it reconciles some problems. Perhaps the background note should be edited to allow for this? Jaf 23:36, 21 March 2006 (UTC)Jaf :::::Do we actually need all these far fetched British 18th century speculations, and dialogue nitpicking speculations in this article. So what if a lieutenant served as a first officer. I don't see anything in Trek to state command personnel with the rank of lieutenant cannot serve as XOs. If it's good enough for Captain Ransom to have a lieutenant as an XO for five years without promoting the rank, why wouldn't it be good enough for Pike? Only problem here seems to be fan-preconceptions, which shouldn't be even noted in MA. --Pseudohuman 07:12, 26 May 2008 (UTC) ::::::I agree. It seems to go rather overboard on a point that isn't inconsistent with canon.– Cleanse 07:24, 26 May 2008 (UTC) :::::::On the other hand, has Una as a Lt. Cmdr. prior to , so I think the notes about the older meaning of "lieutenant" are relevant, since the Short Trek writers seem to have decided to treat her rank in "The Cage" as an error. —Josiah Rowe (talk) 02:23, October 8, 2019 (UTC) Removed For future reference, here's what was removed: * There has been some debate as to how an officer with the mere rank of lieutenant can become the first officer of a starship. A likely reason for this is that, when Gene Roddenberry first created ''Star Trek, the first rank structure he employed was based on the system used in the 18th and 19th century British navy, in which a ship's second in command was generally a First Lieutenant in the sense of the most senior lieutenant, rather than 20th century naval ranks we have come to associate with Starfleet. For this reason, it can be assumed that Starfleet's rank system during this time was temporarily changed from the system used during the 22nd century and was then changed back sometime prior to the events of , although this has not been officially established. * It is also possible that there was no alteration in rank structure and that Number One simply showed an extraordinary aptitude for command - even at a relatively low rank - and thus was able to assume the position of XO. It is also possible that her rank was actually Lieutenant Commander and that Pike simply made an error in referring to her as a Lieutenant. * ''Alternatively, in Starfleet, it may be acceptable to refer to someone as either commander or lieutenant when their rank is lieutenant commander. On at least two occasions after he was promoted to lieutenant commander, Geordi La Forge was referred to as Lieutenant. Once by Natasha Yar in , "''Commander, advise Lieutenant La Forge that shields are still below minimum." Picard also addresses Geordi this way in , when he said "What are you suggesting, Lieutenant?" For the record, I re-added the first few sentences. The behind-the-scenes explanation for it is because of the different rank system used during the first pilot (as explained in The Making of Star Trek, among other references). --From Andoria with Love 08:01, 26 May 2008 (UTC) :But, isn't the so called "different rank system" only a different duty uniform insignia system, aren't the actual ranks exactly the same. Or is there canon-evidence they are not? --Pseudohuman 09:43, 26 May 2008 (UTC) Number One's Name I think the speculation on why Number One is referred to as Number One is looking in the wrong direction. It is somewhat well known that Gene Roddenberry based the character of Captain Kirk loosely on C.S. Forester's Horatio Hornblower. There are a few places in those novels where a ship's second in command is called "Number One." For example, in the first book of the Hornblower series, "Mr. Midshipman Hornblower," there is a chapter in which Hornblower is going ashore for a duel with a fellow officer. As he prepares to leave the ship, another fellow officer says to Hornblower, "Number One's letting us have the second cutter," a reference to the ship's first lieutenant and second in command. This raises the same question about the Hornblower books that is raised about Pike's Number One; why is she only a lieutenant? It appears from the Hornblower books that the British Navy of the early 19th century only had three officer ranks: midshipman, lieutenant, and captain. Interestingly enough, this scheme fits perfectly with the rank insignia used on the sleeves of starfleet uniforms in the two TOS pilots. -- medleyj :Here's an idea about Number One's name that I find amusing. Perhaps her last name is Chapel, as she bares more than a passing resemblance to a certain Starfleet nurse who could be her younger sister. Just an idea. Star Trek never blanched at reusing actors to play different characters. And there's never been any suggestion of relationship before, unless Sarek can be expected to explain why his twin brother commands a Romulan ship. I just like the Lieutenant Chapel idea, and its as good a theory as any. --newlifeform Army to Navy It doesn't make any sense that she would have been a Lt. XO based on Army rankings. Second and First Lt. are equiv. to Ensign and Lt. JG in the Navy, respectively. A full Naval Lt. would be a Captain in the Army. - 07:05, 27 July 2006 (UTC) :You would be right, except that everyone on the ship in that episode was under the army system. In that case, Captain Pike would be right above Lt., since it was an army rank Captain (equivalent to Navy full Lt.) right above an army rank Lt. --OuroborosCobra talk 07:09, 27 July 2006 (UTC) ::Another explanation might be that Roddenberry was using the Royal Navy's rank system as seen in the initial "Hornblower" series. This thought just occurred to me, because it seems odd that the producers would have gone to such pains to show a "nautical" starship (e.g.: bosun's whistle, yeomen, "Steady as we go", "You have the helm"), only to use the US Army's ranks. Another possibility is that Pike was not a captain by rank, but only by courtesy. --GNDN 17:34, 17 December 2006 (UTC) ::: I'm new here, but I'm more than a little tempted to correct (IMHO) the statement about Number One's rank reflecting army rank. Unless there is a citation out there that supports the statement, I find it very hard to believe that there was any intention to use army ranks. Everything else about the Enterprise is naval in nature. The most relevant example is the existence in The Cage of the presence of a yoeman, a role that is specific to the navy. I see a lot more merit in the argument that the rank structure reflects the British and/or Age of Sail system. In the Age of Sail, it was common for a lieutenant to serve as first officer, or even to command a smaller vessel. --newlifeform NBC vs Number 1 I read somewhere (I can't remember where) that NBC wanted to get rid of the Number 1 character, not because she was a woman XO of a starship, but because of her (Majel Barrett Roddenberry) relationship with Gene Roddenberry. Essentially the network viewed it as a conflict of interests for Gene Roddenberry to cast his then girlfriend as a lead character in his new TV show. Does anybody know more about this? 14:48, 28 August 2006 (UTC) :This was discussed in "Inside Star Trek: The Real Story". --GNDN 14:11, 22 December 2006 (UTC) Most references still blame NBC executives for scotching a woman second-in-command. But I recall from the TOS Complete First Seasons DVDs, that their objection arose from focus group research, especially female panelists.Toddsschneider 23:26, 24 December 2008 (UTC) ::I remember that, too. Apparently the women in the group found Number One too willing to please or trying to hard to be "one of the guys" or something. The network also wanted Spock dropped because he looked like a devil. Gene chose to keep Spock and lose Number One, but cast Majel Barrett as Nurse Chapel. --From Andoria with Love 23:51, 24 December 2008 (UTC) Una as Canon name So around the 41.11 mark of Such Sweet Sorrow Part 2, Pike refers to #1 as "Una". I guess we can officially give her a name.--Jkirk8907 (talk) 03:01, April 19, 2019 (UTC) :I'm in the UK and although I suspect it's an error, the subtitles actually say NOONA. -- 08:28, April 19, 2019 (UTC) ::Moving the page wasn't a minor edit. -- Compvox (talk) 08:39, April 19, 2019 (UTC) :::Subtitles are notoriously inaccurate when it comes to spelling, as they are usually written by someone not directly associated with the production. 31dot (talk) 09:01, April 19, 2019 (UTC) :But how do we know if it's Una or Noona then? It seems guesswork either way (yes I know Una was used in Beta cannon but that doesn't actually confirm it's right) -- 09:03, April 19, 2019 (UTC) :::: Yeah, Don't make drastic page moves like this without having at least three legs to stand on to support it and based on the above, when there is obviously some doubt. --Alan (talk) 11:47, April 19, 2019 (UTC) :::::Or even better, for renaming things. As far as that's concerned, this page hasn't been suggest for a rename at all. - 12:20, April 19, 2019 (UTC) ::::::Here's a Screencap from Netflix :::::: ::::::Maybe its an encoding problem and its supposed to be №Ona. ��--Shisma :::::::Meanwhile apparently CBS subtitles transcribe it as "and uh". I think any move proposals here are premature, it's ambiguous at best. JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 14:48, April 19, 2019 (UTC) ::::::::In the CBS All Access US closed captioning, and in my opinion of what I'm hearing: https://ibb.co/Tg8x1sF "Report back to the bridge, I'm going you the conn. And, uh, Admiral,... do everything you can to buy Burnham more time." It's also worth noting at the end of the episode, when given the chance to provide her name, she again says: "Number One." - AJ Halliwell (talk) 14:50, April 19, 2019 (UTC) :::::::::I watched the episode again this morning. The close caption yesterday was not synching with the episode itself. I did not see a name given to this character in the close caption.--Memphis77 (talk) 15:36, April 19, 2019 (UTC) ::::::::::Maybe someone could ask the writers/producers on twitter? Sometimes they respond. Also AJ, she was asked to give Name and Position, we only heard her said Number One, should could have given her name off screen.--Tuskin38 (talk) 16:46, April 19, 2019 (UTC) :::::::::::I wouldn’t use Noona or an alternate spelling as more than a note and disambiguation for Number One, because for all we know it could just be Pike having fun with her preference for the title, aside from the latter being favored since 1964. --PreviouslyOn24 (talk) 17:41, April 19, 2019 (UTC) ::::::::::::One of the writers for the episode, Michelle Paradise, confirmed to TrekCore that it was indeed Una: http://trekcore.com/blog/2019/04/interview-star-trek-discovery-season-finale-michelle-paradise/ Rekkert (talk) 18:29, April 19, 2019 (UTC) :::::::::::But we still don’t know what Pike meant in-canon. She insists on the title, Pike makes up Una as a joke. --PreviouslyOn24 (talk) 19:28, April 19, 2019 (UTC) :::::::::That is speculation, as we are not mind readers. The executive producer admitted that they named the character Una, which is her one of her names from the non-canon.--Memphis77 (talk) 19:35, April 19, 2019 (UTC) :::::::::I have added a note about the name in the bginfo.--Memphis77 (talk) 19:43, April 19, 2019 (UTC) ::::::::::::: I think the article should stay as Number One. I have a feeling Una is another nickname Pike had for her. Appalachia Actual (talk) 21:56, April 19, 2019 (UTC) ::::::::::::::That's still just speculation though.--Tuskin38 (talk) 22:15, April 19, 2019 (UTC) ::::::::::::::: It's not speculation. See below. Geronimo! (talk) 22:31, April 19, 2019 (UTC) :::::::::::::::* TREKCORE: "Rebecca Romijn’s Number One went by ‘Commander’ or simply ‘Number One’ for most of her time on-screen, but it sounded like Pike did call her ‘Una’ one time during the finale — the character’s name from the Star Trek tie-in novels. It wasn’t in the captions, so can you confirm we heard that correctly? :::::::::::::::* PARADISE: Oh yes, it was Una.'' ::::::::::::::I meant it being a nickname is speculation, not the name itself.--Tuskin38 (talk) 22:33, April 19, 2019 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::I support renaming the page to Una. If anyone is interested here is an excerpt from the novel Captain to Captain discussing her name: --NetSpiker (talk) 02:58, April 20, 2019 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::"Doctor, Captain Una of the USS Yorktown". That was not her real name, Kirk knew, but her actual Illyrian sobriquet was supposed to be all but impossible for outsiders to pronounce, so she had adopted the name "Una" at least as far back as her Academy days. A prodigy raised in an independent colony in the Illyrian system that prized personal excellence above all else, she had always been first in her class when it came to academics, athletics, intellect and accomplishments, so she had been known as "Number One" – or "Una" – even before she rose to the rank of first officer under Pike. :::::::At this point we can't be sure if it's not Pike's nickname for her like "Owo" for Owosekun. At the hearing she calls herself just "Number One", which implies it's more than just a reference to her being first officer. JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 04:53, April 20, 2019 (UTC) Hi, on Netflix french version and in subtitles we read and hear "Noona". C-IMZADI-4 (talk) 07:10, April 20, 2019 (UTC) :::The episode writer has unambiguously stated what the character's name is, so I'm not sure what there is left to discuss. As I note above, subtitles are very inaccurate in terms of spelling(in English or French). 31dot (talk) 07:38, April 20, 2019 (UTC) :::::::The writer confirmed that that is what Pike called her, but it's ambiguous whether it's her name or nickname based on her actual name really being "Number One". JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 07:46, April 20, 2019 (UTC) :::::::::According to this Tweet by Greg Cox (one of the people involved in naming her), Una is a proper first name. --Memphis77 (talk) 08:06, April 20, 2019 (UTC) :::::::It is in the books, but it's ambiguous in the show, which Greg Cox is not involved in. JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 08:47, April 20, 2019 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Greg Cox was quoting a Wikipedia article that incorrectly claims Una is her first name. It's actually an alias because her real name is hard to pronounce. --NetSpiker (talk) 09:13, April 20, 2019 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::I accept her name is "Una", but the page title should remain "Number One". Regardless to the fact it's Pike's nickname for her, she chooses to go by it over her real name (when asked during the debrief, she answered "Number One" when asked her name). Even if she was doing it to be arrogant and condescending, it's what she is best known by and most often called. If anything, I would support renaming the page to "Number One (Una)" to better distinguish the page from the general use of the title/nickname "Number One" in Trek in general (or more specifically, Picard's use of it with Riker). --Brch2 (talk) 10:06, April 20, 2019 (UTC) :::::The precedent would be to leave the page at Number One since it seems to be her preferred moniker. We do the same thing for Rodek and , even though those aren't their "real" names. - 11:37, April 20, 2019 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Rodek and Ash Tyler are specific aliases that only apply to one character, while "Number One" is a generic alias that can refer to any first officer. Therefore, "Una" would be more appropriate. --NetSpiker (talk) 12:12, April 20, 2019 (UTC) :::::You're confusing Number One and number one. - 12:20, April 20, 2019 (UTC) ::The production source does carry weight, but in-universe, when asked her name she says "Number One". And Romijn is credited in all appearances as "Number One". "Una" could be anything in-universe. I'm inclined to leave the name as-is. I think the redirect, the bg note, and the AKA cover this pretty well. -- Compvox (talk) 23:34, April 20, 2019 (UTC) ::::::btw. the German audio also clearly states Noona, the subtitles also read Noona, even thought the sentence is structured differently then in the audio. It sometimes seems to me as if the translators have access to some sort of source material. But different teams seem to work on audio an subtitle translation. Nevertheless i'd stick to Number One as her official name. In this context Noona could be a personal nickname. --Shisma :::::::Probably whoever was making the English subtitles misheard it, and then subtitles in other languages were based on that. The writer confirmed it's Una. JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 10:32, April 21, 2019 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::In universe, Number One was being a smart-ass throughout her entire debrief (or at least all but one of the statements we saw her give). She was asked her name and rank. Number One is not her name, but it is a smart-ass reference to her real name, which is Una (feminine form of "one" in several Latin languages, and a proper real name). Number One is also not her "rank", it is her "position" on the ship (though indirectly alludes to what her rank likely is or should be). Her saying Number One was a smart-ass way of answering the question without actually answering the question (assuming she didn't answer it properly before we cut into her answer, and her saying "Number One" wasn't simply her saying something like "...but I go by/everybody calls me Number One". :::::::::::::::::And as for suggesting that Una is a nickname... given that he called her that in the most serious situation we've seen them in together up to that point, makes it LESS likely to be a rarely used or other nickname. He was more likely using her real name due to the seriousness of the situation calling for more seriousness, cutting the use of nicknames, and addressing her by her proper name to convey his tone at the time. Giving her an order to take command of the bridge moments before a large chunk of his ship is about to explode, and many of his crew possibly get killed, is not the time that he's going to switch to using a nickname (if Number One were her actual legal name and what he usually calls her), or otherwise switch from a common nickname to a rarely used one when using her real name would be the proper thing to do at that moment. --Brch2 (talk) 11:15, April 21, 2019 (UTC) UTC) ::::::::::Just want to point out that Una is also a real life name, infact there is a popular Star Trek novel writer with that as a first name.--Tuskin38 (talk) 16:55, April 21, 2019 (UTC) :::::::Pike was using his "Owo" nickname for Owosekun also in very serious situations. JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 20:06, April 21, 2019 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::The argument that the staffer with headphones and a keyboard who typed up the subtitles is a more reliable source for the spelling of the character's name than the writer of the episode itself is an incredibly spurious argument. If you hadn't seen the script (as we hadn't) and heard the ambiguous audio of the name "Una" or "Noona" and with no reference on how to spell it, it's easy to see how that could have occurred. But we DO have a better source, we have the writer of the script. By the former argument, the name of the Klingon Cleave Ship should be "Calvary" because when it arrives on screen, and Pike says "Cavalry arrived just in time!" (as in "the cavalry is here") the subtitles say "CALVARY arrived just in time." So if the subtitles are sacrosanct than it follows that Pike MUST have been referring to the name of the Klingon ship as "Calvary" rather than just a subtitler who didn't spell "cavalry" correctly. Which is more likely? 1) That the subtitler didn't spell "Una" and "cavalry" correctly and that the writer of the bloody episode knows the correct spelling of the name that she put to the script, or 2) that the name "Una" as referenced by the writer and novel(s) written by those affiliated with the writing staff happens to be wrong, but is conspicuously and shockingly coincidentally similar to the word "Noona", and the writers named the Klingon cleave ship a name suspiciously similar to the name of a location on Earth rather than it being another typo? --Jonnyqtrek (talk) 06:55, April 24, 2019 (EST) ::::::::::::::::::::Pike mispronounces it as ‘Calvary’ too. But many people do that, so I guess he’s just one of them. Or Anson Mount is. — 04:55, April 25, 2019 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::I think all this is trying a little too hard to avoid Occam’s Razor. Between what’s audible and Ms Paradise’s own statements (and the novels’ influence doesn’t hurt), it seems contrary to assume her name is anything but ‘Una’ is warping the popular saying into ‘If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it may be a gerbil in disguise’. ::::::::::::::::::::(If anyone’s feeling too ‘but we can’t assume canon’, Michael Burnham’s dad is at a name he’s *never* had on screen.) ::::::::::::::::::::I’d vote keeping the page at ‘Number One’ (or redirectable from same) as the character’s been called just that in most of her appearances, and kicking off with something, ‘Una, usually referred to as “Number One”...’.—- 04:55, April 25, 2019 (UTC) :::::::It's definitely "Una", I'd just say it's not 100% certain whether it's her name or a nickname (with her name actually being "Number One"); even in the novels it's not her real name either. Pike also refers to Owosekun as "Owo" every time, after all. JagoAndLitefoot (talk) 06:55, April 25, 2019 (UTC) ::The novels are not of this discussion. -- Compvox (talk) 11:20, April 25, 2019 (UTC) Now canon From the new Short Trek that just dropped today https://i.imgur.com/arjyRTH.png looks like Una is indeed her real name, she just prefers to go by Number One.--Tuskin38 (talk) 19:56, October 5, 2019 (UTC) :Yes, this could be renamed now. 31dot (talk) 15:29, October 6, 2019 (UTC) ::I already started to rename the number one links with the Una links.--Jkirk8907 (talk) 20:51, October 6, 2019 (UTC) I know y'all just went to the trouble of renaming and changing all the links and article name, but why not leave it as Number One? It's her preferred name based on the dialogue in the show. The 'Seven of Nine' article isn't called 'Annika Hanson'--Tuskin38 (talk) 22:32, October 6, 2019 (UTC) :That could change once Picard airs; maybe Seven prefers Annika at that point. We use Montgomery Scott and not Scotty(a redirect) even though virtually no one called him Montgomery or even Monty. James T. Kirk even though he was often called Jim. 31dot (talk) 22:46, October 6, 2019 (UTC) :Also, "Now canon" is a bit inaccurate. It was canon the moment Captain Pike said it in the season 2 finale, but there was a shocking level of belief here that the subtitler's spelling trumped the knowledge of the writer of the episode.jonnyqtrek (talk) 22:55, October 6, 2019 (UTC) :::: "Now canon" is accurate now according to MA. We are not the encyclopedia, production, or social media. We have our own criteria on this supplemented with peer discussion. Speaking for myself, I've always rather liked the name "Una", but liking it isn't good enough to rename an article. Now we have that confirmation and I fully support it. -- Compvox (talk) 08:47, October 7, 2019 (UTC)